On this episode... Meet sales expert Harry Spaight, who discovered his million-dollar offer by prioritizing serving first.
Selling doesn't have to be pushy – learn how to adopt a "servant mindset" and achieve great success.
His powerful approach allows you to make sales without feeling like a "salesperson." Join us on this episode.
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Founder, Harry Spaight
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Harry Spates and Scott Proposki March 2023
Scott Proposki (00:01.450)
Thanks for watching!
Scott Proposki (00:39.830)
That's right. OK. We're going to meet my good friend Harry. We're part of the same networking group, kind of co-owners of this franchise together. So it's really kind of exciting. And I met Harry in Palm Beach, Florida. And that's right. And what we're going to do is we're going to talk to Harry. Harry is the expert on sales and how to sell your product and services. And like Harry and the people that
Scott Proposki (01:09.690)
on this call, we're so much to be doing. And how do you sell your services? And how big do you need to sell your services? How far, how much business can you actually get? So, welcome to Meet Harry inside the cafe. So stay tuned, we're gonna meet Harry right now.
Scott Proposki (01:29.870)
Hey Harry Spates, how are you? It's Scott, thanks for meeting me in the cafe. And man, I really gotta say thank you for taking the time out to meet with us.
Harry Spaight (01:37.693)
It's awesome to be here in this great cafe, Scott. Thanks for having me.
Scott Proposki (01:42.370)
It's been a great cafe for about 10 years now. I've actually been doing this from in-person 10 years ago to online. So it's been an amazing amount of people like that. But before we dig into anything, can I buy you a cup of coffee?
Scott Proposki (03:11.830)
Harry Spaight (03:12.773)
Yeah. Well, I came from, my mother was a waitress or a server in a restaurant for my entire childhood and she taught me how to drink coffee. And when I learned that a regular coffee was cream with two sugars, that's, I guess I haven't used that expression in ages, probably 30 years. And it just came back to me just like that.
Scott Proposki (03:35.310)
No kidding, really. So I, see this is what this program's all about. For the pre-show, by the way, we talked about how every time we talk about coffee and what people drink, it always leads to a really unique story. And every single time I talk to someone, it's a unique story. So that's kind of cool. That's a lot of fun. That's something new that we learned, but something bigger and better that I want to learn about
Harry Spaight (03:56.493)
Yeah, it is.
Scott Proposki (04:05.630)
program, your sales coaching program they have that is just, well you tell everybody else because I could talk about it all day long because I think it's awesome, but you tell me about this, your sales program, it's so good.
Harry Spaight (04:21.013)
Well, thanks again for having me here, Scott. So when it comes to sales, there are all kinds of how-to books, how to close business, and how to create the perfect sales funnel. There are a lot of things going on. I take the approach that it's not so much what we say, but how we say it and where it comes from. And that is all tied to emotional intelligence. So I believe that we can make
Harry Spaight (04:50.753)
and sales, but if our heart's in the right place and we treat people well, we listen when they're speaking, we treat them with kindness and show empathy, that a lot of good things can happen. We still have to learn about selling and when to ask for the business and how often to ask and so forth, but there's a lot of things we can do naturally that will help us to be better in sales and that's what I try to help people with.
Scott Proposki (05:17.990)
So kind of a hot topic. So you're saying it's all about EI, not AI.
Harry Spaight (05:23.733)
Yeah, exactly. AI might help us to some degree, but AI is really where the rubber hits the road, so to speak, because you can say the perfect closing line, but if you're lacking emotional intelligence as to when to say it or the right tone to say it in, the timing, you name it, there's a lot of things that can still go wrong. And then people will look at it and say, well,
Scott Proposki (05:33.137)
Harry Spaight (05:53.313)
wrong closing line. It's like, well, maybe the person isn't ready for it. Right, and it has happened so often in sales, people want the sale too early and they go for the jugular, so to speak, when they first meet a person, or early on in the conversation, and they'll say things like, I can help you with that, before there's any relationship. And if, you know, if you don't have a relationship and it's a higher ticket item,
Scott Proposki (06:27.910)
Yeah, no. So, oh gosh, so many questions to ask, you know, sales, right? I mean, what's the difference between when you ask somebody, you're in sales, but you sell used cars, right? Or you sell pharmaceutical products from a high-end pharmaceutical company, right? Two different salespeople, then. The imagery, instantaneously, if you're listening, you probably have a vision of these two individuals.
Harry Spaight (06:44.034)
Harry Spaight (06:59.533)
Totally. Yeah, so what's the question on that? I mean, are they different? Yes.
Scott Proposki (07:03.190)
Yeah, so like, how do you train, you know, how do you, yeah, exactly, how do you train, and by the way, I'm not picking on any used car sales people, I think it's an absolutely fantastic job, and I won't, actually, I'm trying to, I should do that job, everybody tells me I should do that, honestly, God, all growing up, and even so recently, people tell me I should do that job. But you train that individual, a used car salesperson, even new car, car salesperson, right, much differently than if you were selling pharmaceuticals
Scott Proposki (07:33.530)
pharmaceutical company. It's a sales rep. The sales cycle is different. I mean, the people buying a car, they come into the dealership ten times because of the sales cycle is takes so long versus a bigger deal. How do you coach different people at different levels?
Harry Spaight (07:50.433)
Well, there's a lot going on and you really have to understand what is the product and service that someone is selling and understand if that's a, excuse me, if it's a, if it's a shorter sales process versus something that's going to take multiple conversations. Now, for instance, when people sell cars, they want to do that on the first call. They want to
Harry Spaight (08:20.313)
That's why you have the scouts out in the parking lot. Someone comes in, the scout goes out, they talk to the person, they try to bring them inside the dealership. And once they're inside the dealership, management comes over and they have this whole process of trying to sell the car on the first call. Now, some, they'll say there's success in that, but I think they're losing sight of today's buyer, where today's buyer is doing a ton of research.
Harry Spaight (08:50.893)
they want a nice experience, they don't want to be bombarded, they don't want to be closed and so you have to make room for those types of people and figure out you know someone younger than 40 today doesn't want to go through the same process that someone older than 40 might. I'm just using that as a number as far as buying a car is concerned because a lot of people are just choosing to buy it online now.
Scott Proposki (09:17.330)
Yeah, I know that's the future, right? And just click, click, click, click. It's like an Amazon purchase. Yeah, I mean, you know, let's, I always, when I compare something, I'll always ask somebody, what do you see, and I'll ask this question right now, how do you see the sales process 100 years from today in the car market?
Harry Spaight (09:19.133)
Right? Get rid of the salesperson.
Harry Spaight (09:36.973)
Yeah, well, I think that anything that is an object that does not need a consultative approach to it, people are just going to buy without a salesperson. Now, you know, dealers are always, in my opinion, they're gonna try to find ways to get out in a community and draw people towards their dealership, but the reality is we're all trying to do things without salespeople. You know,
Harry Spaight (10:07.453)
and we absolutely need a salesperson to help guide us, that's different. But a lot of products that, you know, who would have thought that they'd be selling cars online and everyone in whatever the industry they're in, they'll say things like, well, that will never hit me. And sure enough, within a short period of time, you start to see it, the same stuff advertised online. And, you know, IT services is you can now get online, right? There's a lot of things
Scott Proposki (10:27.950)
Scott Proposki (10:35.750)
Harry Spaight (10:36.913)
that used to be very consultative just aren't as consultative as they once were because the buyers are doing a ton of research. So yeah.
Scott Proposki (10:45.090)
Yeah, no, right. Everything's getting commoditized, right? And it's the wrong price. So when I used to coach, train my team members to sell photographs, right? We'd always have a small upgrade or the upsell, right? Would you like wallets with that? Right? Or would you like the photo key change? Right? There was always, and I always used to compare it and say, would you like cheese with that? Right? And that's the upsell. Do you want cheese with that?
Harry Spaight (10:48.398)
Scott Proposki (11:15.330)
favorite, you know, upsells you, right? But recently, I don't know if you experienced this, but I went to McDonald's not that long ago here in Boston. I walked into the McDonald's and I thought I walked the wrong way. I couldn't find anybody. There was this big wall with a kiosk. Man, did I instantaneously feel like a hundred years old. Like I went back in time and there was nobody that helped you, like person, right? So you got,
Scott Proposki (11:45.210)
and listen, McDonald's. And there's nobody, you have to walk in the McDonald's and enter in what you want and da-da-da-da-da. So nobody's upsellin' me any of the cheese, right? So the wholesale cycle in this McDonald's thing, they've just eliminated the person. I mean, I just thought it was incredible. I mean, for me, I don't know, I just thought it was incredible how they actually know that model works on such a big, I mean, they're the king of franchises. I mean, they know what works and doesn't. You follow, if McDonald's does it, that means everybody's gonna do it.
Harry Spaight (12:10.253)
Harry Spaight (12:14.973)
Well, look at Chick-fil-A though.
Scott Proposki (12:15.152)
It's all about the experience, right?
Harry Spaight (12:20.794)
Isn't it a much better experience? I mean, comparatively speaking, you've got people who are mentioning your name, they're greeting you in the driveway, in line, they're making the order processing much faster, they're respectful, polite, happy, cheerful, saying hello, and look at the business they do. And then you'll, yeah, isn't it?
Scott Proposki (12:37.371)
Yeah, talk about shift. That's a shift. I mean, I was just reading something the other day where it was like, when you go to Chick-fil-A and you say, you know, the customer says thank you. They're instructed to say, it was my pleasure. You know, which is very different, very different.
Harry Spaight (12:54.993)
Yeah, it's really amazing. Yeah, absolutely. And so, I think this is where businesses can stand out in a product that is completely commoditized like chicken sandwiches. You can get them anywhere. I think McDonald's sells them. I mean, any fast food place sells chicken sandwiches. They'll do their little nuggets, whatever. But yet the customer service is what, I mean, Chick-fil-A is okay. But to me, it's like,
Harry Spaight (13:24.913)
I'm paying quite a bit for this and there's really not that much in the bank and it's okay, right? It's not like it's fine dining, right? But they do a good job on the customer service. So I think that has something to do with why people keep going back and their customer loyalty, I think. What's your thought?
Scott Proposki (13:28.752)
It's fast food. It's fast food. Yeah, it's fast food. Yeah, right, it's fast food. Like, it serves a purpose. Yeah.
Scott Proposki (13:42.870)
Yeah, right. Well, I know I agree with you. I mean, I've been doing research on the sales cycle and sales process. I'm actually, my sales coach, besides you, Harry, is Donald Miller, who wrote the story brand. And so I talked to Donald about the sales cycle and how small businesses takes up almost 85% of the country, small businesses.
Scott Proposki (14:13.330)
need help running their business. And it really comes down to sales and marketing, right? And of course it's the other parts that keep what Don says, keeps the airplane in the air, right? And having all components of the airplane functioning for you to keep flying, to keep going. So it's, I believe, and I believe in Donald's model about the story itself. It's all about a story
Scott Proposki (14:43.750)
the customer is a hero and bringing the customer is a hero and the salesperson is the guide to bring them to be a hero, right? To help them with a problem they have that they've solved and it's like, ah, thank you. You know, they're the hero, but you guide them and they appreciate it. And that model to me, being having a former photography
Scott Proposki (15:13.710)
National Photography Company and seeing a lot of photographers, a lot of photographers talk about them, it's all about them, right? And I'm picking on photographers because I can, I feel like I'm an expert on it. And they say, we do, we do this, we do that. They don't really care about you. They don't care about them, you know, and they don't. I mean, they're good people, don't get me wrong. Nobody cares about me. And, you know, and I sell sort of mode, but what can I do to help you is really the question, right? What's your thoughts?
Harry Spaight (15:27.593)
Harry Spaight (15:39.533)
Exactly. Yeah, I love it. And I love the story brand. So it's, it's completely aligned with my approach. I feel that storytelling is a key. One of the many, there's not a lot of keys like it. But when I say many keys to success, your personality, the way you listen, the way you treat others, the way you're able to differentiate between someone who needs no small talk,
someone who wants to chit chat and become friendly before they buy anything. But making it all about the customer, the client as the hero versus, you know, let me do this and I, I, I, and me, me, me is what unfortunately hits a lot of sales people. And thus, when you make it about them, the prospect, you stand out completely different than almost everyone else. Because
you know even though a lot of people love the story brand it's still a minority of people who actually practice that so yeah I'm a huge fan.
Scott Proposki (16:48.930)
Yeah, I know, psychologically, people just want to talk about themselves. I think they feel like it's easier. But in all reality, they can't actually talk about themselves in a story. And they talk about themselves in a story about the credibility of what they have accomplished to give the hero, customer, that I can guide you to get you there. It's a whole completely different...
Scott Proposki (17:18.131)
I'm not talking about myself, but I'll talk about how I was a photographer for National Geographic and these are some things I've accomplished and wouldn't you like to get there too?
Harry Spaight (17:29.313)
Right, well, you know, so you think about some of the work that you've done, the testimonials that your, or your portfolio that you could show, and you do it in a way that is not like I'm better than everyone else, but when you say it was an honor or it was a real privilege to do this, and you show some humility in all of this because it can all go away in a second, right? But you know what?
I think there's a tendency to think that, you know, you'll see someone say I'm the number one salesperson in this market. And I question if people are really drawn to that. You know, if someone's saying I'm the number one realtor in Boston, does that mean you want to work with that person? I don't know. I just don't necessarily connect with that type of personality. So there are those who may not connect with that.
Harry Spaight (18:29.273)
you start thinking about, well, who's my audience? Because if I don't connect, someone else isn't connecting. And then now you can pick up some other, not say scraps, other clients that don't necessarily connect with that type of personal branding.
Scott Proposki (18:47.810)
I teeter on the same thing myself. I help photographers build a better business. So when I talk to other photographers and how I can help them with what I've accomplished, I'll talk about the time I was at the White House at National Geographic and Google. I talk about these amazing experiences. And they're really excited to hear about it and I'm excited to talk about it. And if I did it, you can too. And I will help you get you there. But then at the end of the conversation, it gets scary for them.
Scott Proposki (19:17.990)
And I believe why I get scared. Harry, this is a good, I'm asking a question, actually a legitimate question, right? So it's like, it's so high up. It's like, oh, I'm the top salesperson. I'll tell you everything. You know, and I tell somebody that, oh, I've been at the White House. I'm a photographer for President Obama. It's really high. I bring myself up really high, but I do it in a very humble way. Because I am, I really didn't talk about a lot. But I'm talking about it to give myself credibility, to help somebody else at that level.
Scott Proposki (19:47.310)
of how I got there. But here's where it gets sticky. It's almost too high. It's almost like they can see me on the other side of the river, but that river is flowing by so fast that if they put their toes in that water that it's going to take them down the river and then they'll see me but like they're scared of that river in front of me. That's too fast.
Harry Spaight (20:09.193)
And what do you think is what's scary for them?
Scott Proposki (20:13.770)
It's almost, they can see it, but it's like, they can't see themselves actually crossing the river. They can't actually see themselves actually working for HBO or National, you know, some of these really high-end clients that they would only dream about. It's like, they dream about trying to get over that, they're just dreaming about getting over that river. But man, it's too intimidating. That water's going too fast. And I try to, and then it goes into a little bit of metaphor where it's like, well, I'm here to take actually these big boulders and put these big boulders in this big, fast running water.
Scott Proposki (20:43.970)
so that you can get over to getting it on the other side of the river, right? So it's about creating that metaphor and actually pointing it out, I think, has been helpful.
Harry Spaight (20:57.233)
Well, absolutely. So if you if you're making it inviting for people, so that they look at this and say, well, there's concerns, right? So your services are going to have some investment required. Will they put to use what they're getting from you? You know, will they will they make the time? Will this be another failed project like they've had in the past? There's a lot of concerns. So that this is where
Harry Spaight (21:27.553)
that relatability in storytelling comes in, where I worked with a client who has a number of times tried different things that just didn't work. And so we came up with this program, which was designed to kind of create one little step across the creek at a time. And they could look back and make progress and over the period of months, we were able to get to this point. And they've just done amazingly since, versus,
again, sometimes the tendency would be is to pat ourselves on the back and then that loses some some taste sometimes with our prospects. But it sounds like you're doing the right thing and you're just kind of making it easy and pain-free as much as possible, recognizing that people have made investments in the past that didn't work and so now we can then become more relatable and understanding where they're coming from. Sometimes that might help.
Scott Proposki (22:13.292)
Yeah, no, no, that's good. You know, the other thing I've been getting, I've been doing a lot more sales lately, gotta pick up my game here, try to get some new clients. But, yeah, no, it's actually, I mean, I could talk all day long, so I don't have a problem with it. But, you know, it's a really interesting concept. I've been in some, I've been in some ads, and have people inquire in, and they book some appointments with me, and they get on a call with me. And after about 30 minutes or 35 minutes
Scott Proposki (22:53.990)
with them, I would say eight, if not nine out of 10, will actually stop and say, Scott, I'm actually surprised you got on the call and I can't believe how like this is exactly what I was looking for that you get on me with. But, and the question is like, I was really expecting a scam. Like, you're real. And I'm like, yeah, isn't it crazy that we're all expecting to be scammed and sold to versus somebody that's actually invited them into a story?
Scott Proposki (23:23.650)
what I'm doing and telling them that this could be them and this is how we're gonna do it. And the paradigm has shifted to like, it's actually really, somebody's really calling me that. Like I'm having this actual conversation when somebody's not gonna scan me. I thought it was amazing that nine out of 10 people would say that to me.
Harry Spaight (23:42.653)
Yeah, it's really the way, unfortunately, the expectations, the bar is pretty low. So if you can separate yourself, show some concern, some expertise, provide some guidance for people, give them something of value. Yeah, it's a stunning thing. It's like, you're like, whoa.
Scott Proposki (23:57.170)
They're shocked. They're shocked. I can't believe this. So all the people that are like, as far as if you're in the sales position, right? And you're selling, the competition is so low of somebody really a great salesperson, they're not selling, they're trying to help that other person with the problem that they have, which is not selling to me. I'm trying to solve your problem.
Scott Proposki (24:28.190)
When you come across that concept of, can I help you? Can I help you? If you have a salesperson say, can I help you? Yeah, I have a problem. My dishwasher broke. I think I can solve that problem for you, right? It's not that difficult, right? But what has happened is the competition is so low that good salespeople that actually come across, not come across, but they're doing the due diligence and process of following, of helping the customer.
Scott Proposki (24:57.150)
doing their job, right? But the competition is so low for people to actually do their job, right? That it almost makes it easier for somebody like me to get on a call to actually talk to somebody.
Harry Spaight (25:09.693)
And just to finish that, and I tell people that with the photography business, is that they'll say, Scott, how did you get National Geographic, the White House, HBO, all these companies? I said, I called them.
Scott Proposki (25:27.290)
I said, did you? No. I said, actually, the competition at that level is so low that my probabilities are so high to land these jobs because nobody's calling them because nobody actually believes it's believable that they can actually get these jobs.
Harry Spaight (25:47.433)
That's really great. Yeah, that's a nice takeaway. Yeah, because you're so right, is that you got two things going for you. One, you've got, you put the client as the hero, you have more than two things. You have skills, right? You gotta have some skills in what your business is. You make the client the hero, and then you make calls that no one else will, right? You're gonna,
Scott Proposki (26:18.990)
Yeah, I had a call the other day. I was in the office on Saturday. So I said, I'll make some calls, you know. And so I made some calls, and this nice lady answers the phone. And I said, hey, hi, you know, is this Janet? And she goes, yeah. I said, hey Janet, you filled out a form, and I'm the former National Geophotographer, and I just randomly thought I'd give you a call and see if I could help you with your business.
And she starts talking and we had a great grand conversation. And then we talked about, like, I just want to help her. And she goes, you know, I said, I just want to help you. I'm not selling anything and I want to see how I can solve your problem. She goes, I didn't think you were selling me. She goes, I'll never talk to a salesperson. You don't want me salespeople calling you on the phone and oh, they sell me this and they sell me that. But I'm like, you picked up the phone and talk to me.
Scott Proposki (27:22.032)
I was telling a story and I was genuine listening to her about her problem trying to build a better photography business.
Scott Proposki (27:32.610)
And I understood her. I'm like, I, I listened more than spoke. Uh, but I was relatable that she felt comfortable to talk to me because just the way I came across, I didn't immediately sell. Hey, I got a loan here. Do you want it? Do you need any, do you need a hundred grand? And I'll give you a hundred grand. It's only 49% interest rate. Are you ready to sign? No, I didn't do that.
Yeah. Well, the whole approach then, if you're looking and you're asking about their business, if you're looking to serve and ask about their business and what she's doing today, what's working, where it could be some areas that things could be a little bit better, and you're asking questions like that, people don't look at that as selling. But to me, that's discovery. Right?
totally. Exactly. And it's like, what problem could I help you with right now? If we were to start working together right now, what would that one problem be? Let me think about that. And you know, a lot of you know, chunk it down, chunk it down, chunk it down, and really figure out what the problem is. And yeah, it's, it's amazing. It's actually
Harry Spaight (28:43.113)
Yeah, well, so someone can walk away from that conversation and say, maybe the person decides that it's a great conversation. How did you leave it with her? Was it going to be a follow-up call? I mean, do you mind if I ask? Okay.
Scott Proposki (28:57.830)
No, no, no, no. So it's kind of interesting because, again, I haven't been making sales calls for a number of years, for whatever reason, team members, but getting back into the game here. And so I did something just from listening, now that dawn, actually. And so she goes, well, Scott, it was really great talking to you, but I have to get going. But can I talk to you next week about it? I said, yeah, absolutely. I said, how's Tuesday or Wednesday? Now, she thought I was just gonna say,
Scott Proposki (29:27.770)
great. Yeah, call me anytime, whatever. And I'd hang up the phone and she'd get rid of me. But she actually really interested. But some people just need to be. This is where you got to ask for the sale. This is where there's a teetering where she just needs. She needs the help. I know she does. So I felt comfortable by saying, great. How's Tuesday or Wednesday? Pause. Tuesday. Perfect.
Scott Proposki (29:57.890)
afternoon afternoon 2 p.m. or 3 p.m. 3 p.m. great I'll send you a calendar link make sure you enjoy the weekend and talk to you on Tuesday
Harry Spaight (30:08.833)
Nice. Yeah. Yeah. That's the way to do it. Right. It's just to, you know, take that extra 30 seconds that that took if that and let's just schedule the next, right. Schedule it. Right. The worst thing is going to happen is that they say, well, I'm really busy. I can't, can't commit right now. And you get an idea where they are. It's okay. They're not ready. It's not the end of the world, but if they're, they give you the time, then you've got
Scott Proposki (30:20.554)
It's about how I ask the question.
Harry Spaight (30:38.713)
Notifications that are going to give them at least one hopefully a couple of notifications That they're going to see your name and then if something comes up doesn't mean the end of the world again doesn't mean they're not interested Something came up. So now we have basically if they committed to a meeting We're gonna follow up and just you know, try to get them to another meeting eventually It may not be for a few weeks, but that's okay. This is what selling is folks Right
Scott Proposki (31:05.090)
Yeah, right. You know, at first it was like, you know, that's a different approach, right? About just asking, great, next week, Tuesday or Wednesday, Tuesday, morning or afternoon. She made the decisions, I didn't tell her. Let's talk Wednesday at three, okay, let's talk Wednesday at three p.m., we'll talk about this, we'll close this deal Wednesday at three p.m. That ain't gonna work. She told me, I was continuing to ask questions. Just ask questions.
Harry Spaight (31:28.175)
Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Scott Proposki (31:36.152)
She's, I'm controlling the conversation, but she's making the decisions, right? So.
Harry Spaight (31:41.393)
Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think, too, is that you're making it so it's not threatening.
Harry Spaight (31:52.133)
right where she's not feeling like you're salesy in the first place. And then by your approach, by, you know, she doesn't even think you're selling, then you're obviously your approach is the right kind of approach for her, which is for the vast majority of people because nobody likes to be sold last time I checked, right? So yeah, it's good stuff, you know? So what was different about this? Do you feel like it was scheduling the follow-up call was a little bit different for you?
Scott Proposki (32:21.770)
Yeah, just asking, you know, guide again, guiding them to, well, asking them, asking multiple questions that guide them to where I want them to go, right? And where I ultimately want them to go is, you know, if they're not sure, book it on the call, right? If you're not sure, book it on the call.
Harry Spaight (32:42.073)
Yeah. So, so we think of that and I appreciate you sharing that because that's all great. Now think about it as a how we're serving them. You see, most will say, well, I did what I was supposed to do. I got the appointment, blah, blah, blah. And we pat ourselves on the back, which is all good. But how is that actually serving the prospect by putting it in their calendar?
Scott Proposki (33:09.890)
Well, I mean, first, when you actually know you have a product that can actually help them, I'm not just selling something they don't need, but I'm actually selling something and providing something that I know. I actually know I could change your life. I actually believe it. I know I can. So that I know from the questions I asked. So when the time comes and I'm giving her the opportunity to agree on that time that she decided on.
Scott Proposki (33:42.691)
I'm helping her more to make that decision. Because some people, how many times, oh, I'll call you back next week. They just, for some reason, some people are afraid of telling you, don't bother me. I'm just guiding her to, she probably needs a little bit of time to think about it, and that's fine. But I gave her that option, and that's fine. And if, maybe not now, later, I'm okay with it. I'm okay with it.
Yep. And have you ever worked with somebody that says, I wish I did this years ago?
Scott Proposki (34:17.392)
I think nine out of 10 people. I actually tell them, I'm like, I only wish I could call myself 10 years ago. And I said that today, actually. And the person came back and said, what would you ask him? What would you ask your... First time somebody asked me. So I rarely gave him a sincere answer. I would have said, maintain your email list. Maintain your email list like it's gold.
Scott Proposki (34:44.589)
I mean somebody could take everything away from you, your whole business, everything, all your stuff, carry a tornado, blow through, you take your whole business out. Who knows, maybe have a pandemic. What's the possibilities of that ever happening, right? But you have your email list and you get back and talk to the customers. So that's what I would have told myself. What would you tell yourself, your 10
Harry Spaight (35:11.593)
Oh, I'd probably say take a chance, right? Whatever it is. I mean, you know, I think about the chances I've taken in life and I took a lot of chances, but probably could have used a few reminders along the way for other chances. So, I mean, yeah, without getting into me, but yeah, I think that's, you know, the fact that you, when you're helping somebody get what they want and you know,
Harry Spaight (35:41.413)
It's not just about us. We're getting the calendar invite. We're getting the next meeting, but we're also serving that person to help them get what they want sooner. By nailing it down, nailing it time down, we might save a year off the clock for them of back and forth trying to reach them. And they could thank us for the next 20 years as to how much we changed their lives. So getting that on the clock is actually benefiting them too.
Scott Proposki (36:11.590)
Yeah, they're buying time. They're buying time. They can make more money, but you can't make more time.
Harry Spaight (36:11.794)
And it's not just us, right? Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Scott Proposki (36:20.330)
So yeah, it's been, it's been an interesting process. I've been really kind of enjoying it, but you know, how do you keep it, well, we have just one more question. I could talk to you all day, Harry. I may be kind of fun during that whole conversation there, but psychologically, if you are in sales and you listen to this, there is the psychologically point of getting 35 nos in a row in dealing with that as an individual to get back,
Scott Proposki (36:50.270)
back in the office, something calls again. How do you coach somebody through that?
Harry Spaight (36:56.013)
Well, I think the couple of things that helped me over the years is that when I was in heavy prospecting mode, I had to take breaks. So my goal was, I mean, whatever the number is, if it's 15 or 20 calls, I'm going to get up, I'm going to walk around, you know, go walk the dog, something to clear my mind, pat myself on the back. I'm doing the right thing. This is all going to lead somewhere. You know, a little pep talk.
Harry Spaight (37:26.173)
maybe listen to a little motivation. So you got to do that and then I think when there's days and days of things not really seeming like they're going to work out, make sure you talk to someone that loves you. Find a customer that loves you and you just have a call with them just how are things going? It's been a while since we chatted. Want to see how things are and they say oh everything's great and it's like we love you you've been
Harry Spaight (37:55.913)
And it's like, once you get that, it's like, okay, that's enough fuel to go the next day or whatever. So we've got to find ways to reward ourselves. And, you know, it's really easy to say not take it personally, but I take it. I've always taken stuff personally. I just get over it fast. Right. So I've, I've been crushed on many sales losses, opportunities. I've been crushed, but I don't wallow in it and just say, you know what? That wasn't meant to be. There's someone else out there waiting for.
Scott Proposki (38:27.970)
Can you say a while, how long is that, like five minutes or five hours? Yeah, right. No, it's a really, it's a really good question. I'm joking about it, but I'm not, you know, sometimes it takes me three days. It takes me three days. Sometimes if it's like a really bad one.
Harry Spaight (38:31.213)
No, it's a day. It's typically a day. Yeah, no, I get you. It's not like, yeah, yeah. Well, trust me, I'm not like after suffering a significant loss, I'm not picking up the phone, next. Right, but I mean, it depends on what it is, right? So if it's just someone saying no for 17 times in a row, that's not as tragic as something you've been working on for a long time.
gotten all the indicators you're going even maybe forecasted it. And you know, the rug has been slipped out from underneath you. And this was like, I didn't see that one coming. And you know, you already counted the money and you already, you know, made the vacation plans or whatever, but that stuff happens and it makes us tougher in business, I think so.
Scott Proposki (39:22.190)
One more question. One more. One more question. You're up front, Harry. Do you need another cup of coffee? Let's get another cup of coffee. What is your thoughts about firing the customer?
Harry Spaight (39:23.476)
Harry Spaight (39:27.655)
I know I'd love another cup of coffee but...
Scott Proposki (39:36.750)
Now, that fight, well, yeah, and this is a little bit, so you've already sold them, depending on what kind of business you have. If you're in a direct sales role, you do the sales, you move on, that's all you do. But when you're a sole entrepreneur, you actually sold the customer, now you actually fulfill the order, so maybe you're involved with that whole process. So you sold this customer that you were like, eh, I don't know, but you sold it, right? And now you got them on, you're like, I wanna fire them now, because they're not just not a good fit, I mean, what's your thoughts about that?
Harry Spaight (40:05.033)
Right. I think the first thing is try to have conversations just like you would with an employee and see if you can straighten it out or make it better where it's tolerable. But at the end, if that doesn't work, it's just like you don't fire an employee unless they're stealing from you, right? Or they're doing something really corrupt. You know, the George Costanza moments in Seinfeld. I didn't realize that was wrong. Things like that. Yeah, you got
Harry Spaight (40:35.153)
the person and get better maybe they show up late too much or maybe they're short with a customer or something and you coach them well we can coach our clients as well but you know that they've got to put some effort into it as well and want sometimes people just think because they're paying you or paying us that they own us and they get to be disrespectful and that's where you have to eventually you have to draw the line in the same
Harry Spaight (41:05.733)
and say this doesn't work for me. This type of treatment, you know we got a lot of good things going on here, but this doesn't work. And if we do this again, we're gonna have to part as friends, right? And you have those conversations that you say it with a straight face so that they see that you're serious.
Harry Spaight (41:34.973)
people, some people are just never going to be happy no matter what you do. And you just say, is this a good use of my time? Again, I'm going to try to coach the person and say, you know, be polite, do a little research, how you might be able to help the person where you can help them. But if that doesn't work, you're not obligated to take it for the next 20 years, in my opinion.
Scott Proposki (41:58.710)
No, I tell the same thing to my team. And I had somebody, they were frustrated that I'm talking to them and we'll let them finish speaking. I said, Drake, you know what? Sometimes the ketchup's always gonna be too red and the french fries are gonna be too salty. And sometimes it's just not gonna matter. And I kinda like laughed and it's kinda like, ultimately that's really what it is. So we just have to have this conversation
Harry Spaight (42:32.153)
Exactly. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot. I mean, and it helps you, I think, too, is when you're looking at your ideal client, and you're trying to figure that out. One of the things that you say is, I don't want to work with squeaky wheels. Right. So you say, my ideal client views me as a partner versus a vendor. And so you start looking at things a little bit differently. So now when you're
Harry Spaight (43:02.333)
you know, a classic example, I'll never forget this, as I was doing a job interview, and the person, I was meeting the owner of a company, and the receptionist was saying, this is like the third time so-and-so called, he says, tell them I'm not here. And I went, okay, so this is who this guy really is, right? That does not go away. So when you have someone that's lying in front of a person that's considering to work with them,
Harry Spaight (43:32.353)
That's that's not going to get better. So recognize that when you see the red flags They have meaning and it's best to recognize them and avoid them
Harry Spaight (43:47.033)
It, yeah. Oh yeah, you definitely have to learn. These are lessons you learn. It certainly don't come until you...
Scott Proposki (43:53.171)
Yeah, it wasn't on my quiz. It was not one of the quiz questions on my quiz in college. They missed that one. Yeah, this is great.
Harry Spaight (43:59.413)
Right, yes, yeah, yeah. Well, that whole thing you mentioned earlier, that time is money. I mean, when do we figure that one out? It's when you start having a lesser amount of time in life when you realize that you said, oh, I get that now. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh.
I can make more money, but I can't make more time. So if you can help me solve that and buy myself some time, I'll listen. Ha ha.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, this is the thing about coaching. Sometimes people will say, well, that's so expensive. And, you know, the question is, well, do you want to spend the next five years trying to figure it out? Because that also is expensive. And I'd rather spend a lot more of the cash, which can be replaced than those five years that cannot be replaced. That's how I look at it. Right. So I think the older you get. And I've said
Harry Spaight (44:54.213)
things before it's so expensive but once you hit a certain age it's like yeah time is money time is more important than money because I can always replace the money
Scott Proposki (45:00.470)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Can I leave you with a joke that I use based on that conversation? We'll leave everybody with this joke a little bit. And so, same situation, well, I had a customer and, wow, how much? How much? I mean, for an hour, how much is this gonna be? And I said, well, let me explain this a little bit better because I kind of like metaphors, okay?
Scott Proposki (45:30.670)
I said, you know, I went to the dentist and I needed my tooth pulled. And so I went in there, had my tooth pulled. He was great. He, like, five minutes. Took the tooth out, was all good. I said, thank you very much. I appreciate it. It was like, ah, no more pain. I get back to work. He saved me all this pain. Took my pain right away. I went to the reception desk. I went to pay the bill. And she goes, that'll be, that'll be $500. I said, $500?
Scott Proposki (46:00.450)
I said, he only worked on me for like 10 minutes, $500. And he reached out into the reception area and said, Scott, I can make it last 10 hours next time.
Scott Proposki (46:14.570)
$500 it is. Seems like a pretty good deal. Seems like a pretty good deal. So, you want the pain to last forever? What's it worth? What's it worth? What's it worth? So, anyways. You like that, huh? That was good, right? That was pretty good. Yeah, that was good. So on that note, hey, I wanna thank everybody for listening. Harry, if we want to get ahold of you and we need your wisdom on sales for our teams, where can we go?
Harry Spaight (46:25.333)
Exactly. Yeah. That's good stuff. I like it too. This is great.
Harry Spaight (46:45.013)
Sellingwithdignity.com. You'll find my Get in Touch with Harry all over the place, so feel free to get in touch with me. Sellingwithdignity.com.
Scott Proposki (46:52.130)
That was a great. What was the website name? Say that again.
Scott Proposki (46:58.650)
Brilliant. It's brilliant. It's kind of interesting. You didn't make it about you, did you? See? See? So you're doing what you practice, what you preach. That's great. I'll put that in our show notes and the information below on the podcast. If you listen to this and the great thing about this is this podcast will live hopefully for a while that people get to listen to. If you listen to the podcast this long, you probably do want to talk to Harry. And right. I mean, you
Harry Spaight (47:01.586)
Scott Proposki (47:28.690)
through all this effort. So you want to call Harry, call Harry. And it's been great. And if we can just touch one live and help one live with that person that listened to this podcast, this is my whole purpose is to change lives and help extraordinary people be better people. So if yeah, so that's that's a goal. So if you know somebody that would appreciate this podcast, share with them, maybe we can all change lives. So appreciate it. Thanks, Harry. And you know, after down the coffee,
Scott Proposki (47:58.670)
How about we grab a beverage somewhere else? All right. Thanks a lot, Aaron.
Harry Spaight (48:01.074)
That sounds great, Scott. It's been a pleasure.